Good morning, and welcome back to our live-streaming series. Again, I want to welcome all those from the church, all those who are in the Klang Valley, and I want also to welcome all those who are tuning in from the other places. Now, you might remember that when we began this live streaming program, we started off with a hymn, and that hymn has stuck with me ever since: All the way my Saviour leads me, what have I to ask beside? Can I doubt His tender mercy, Who through life has been my guide! Heavenly peace divinest comfort, Here by faith in Him to dwell. For I know whatever befalls me, Jesus doeth all things well. So, let us now begin with a word of prayer.

“Indeed, our Father in Heaven, whatever befall us, You do all things well. And Lord, we, therefore, come together before You this morning and we want to draw near to praise You, we want to draw near to thank You. And we want to thank You even for this time of a pandemic, and we know that it is a strange time that we are in that the whole world goes through a common experience. And we know that this has not happened by accident, that You have brought this about. And Lord, we know that You have something to say to us, something to say to the world, and something to say to the church. But we know most of all, that You have done all things for Your own sake and for Your glory, and for the good of Your church.

And so, we pray that You might indeed help us that during this time to humble ourselves before You, to learn to pause, for indeed You have stopped us in our track as we were busy with so many things. Perhaps, O Lord that we have forgotten You. Perhaps, O Lord, that we have forgotten our priorities, that we are so preoccupied with the things of this life. Lord, we, therefore, pray that You might help us to be attentive to Your voice as You speak to us. And we pray that indeed we might take this time to reflect, to reflect on our lives, to reflect on our relationship with You, to reflect on our walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, we pray that we may come through this pandemic more sanctified. Lord, we, therefore, pray that You might help us as a church.

But we do want to thank You also that during this time of lockdown when we are unable to gather physically, that You have been pleased to enable us to continue to gather even in this manner, to continue to draw near to You even in a different way. And we want to thank You, for we know that these resources are from You, and this ability to do so are from You. And we also want to pray as we draw near this morning, that all of us might be conscious that we are drawing near to a thrice-holy God, indeed You are Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty. And indeed we are sinful beings. Lord, help us to truly humble ourselves before You, and also to draw near with that heart of joy because we know that as your people, we can draw near because of Your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. We can draw near and seek forgiveness because of what the Lord Jesus has done for us. And we pray that You might indeed forgive us again of all our sins and iniquity.

And now as we come and to hear your Word, we again pray for enlightenment from above. We pray for the Spirit of God to so work in us, to open our eyes to see Your wondrous truth and so work in our lives to submit to Your will and grant us the grace to be obedient to You. And so help us, O Lord this day, help us as we come now to Your Word, for we pray and ask all these in Jesus’ name, Amen.”

Now, you might remember that we are doing a series on Hebrews chapter 11, and Hebrews chapter 11 is a chapter on faith, and in our first study on this chapter, we learn about the meaning of faith. What is faith? And that is defined and explained to us in verse 1, where we are told that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I’ll put it another way- faith is the assurance of things not seen and the conviction of these things. And so that is faith.

Now in the second study, we learn about the importance of faith, this is from verse 2 through verse 6. We are told that it is important to have faith because faith pleases God. The Bible tells us here in verse 6 that without faith it is impossible to please God, but we are also told that it’s important for us to have faith because when we come to God by faith, we will be blessed or we will be rewarded. We’ll be made right with God; we’ll be justified by our faith and also that we will be blessed with life everlasting. And so, that is what we have learnt thus far about faith in this chapter: the meaning of faith and importance of faith.

Now today, we are going to look at verses 7 through 10, and here we are going to look at the proof of faith. Faith, as you know, is a very important subject in the Bible. It is one of the fundamental topics or truth. And so, we are going to look at the very facet of this subject. So today, we are going to look at the proof of faith. And I want to ask you: do you have faith? Do you believe in Jesus Christ? I’m not sure about all who are gathered here this morning. Perhaps for the majority of us now we have professed faith in Jesus Christ, and for those of you who have not profess faith, now I would like to encourage you and I’d like to urge you this morning to consider this very seriously, to consider the fact that if you do not have faith you cannot please God. If you do not have faith you cannot be made right with God.

There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. There is nothing we can do to make ourselves right with God. There’s nothing that we can do to commend ourselves to God except that we come to Him by faith in His Son Jesus Christ. And so, I wanna ask again: do you have faith? Now if the majority of us answer yes that we have faith in Jesus Christ, now my next question is: How do we know? How do we know that you have faith? Now the Bible touches on this time and time again about not just that we should profess faith in Jesus Christ, but that we should have proof or evidence that we have faith.

Now James in his letter wrote this, let me now read from James 2:17-18, and that is the point that he’s trying to make about people who profess faith in Jesus Christ. And he said in verse 17: “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” In other words, faith requires proof. Then he says in verse 18: “But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” Now there James is saying the same thing as the writer to the Hebrews, here is saying about faith, that faith must have proof. So, that is our subject this morning. 

And so, what we see here in our text in verses 7 through 10 is the writer now bringing up two examples to illustrate his point that faith must have proof. Now the first example is the example of Noah in verse 7, and so let me now read verse 7, which says: “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.” Now let us look at this verse carefully concerning Noah. Now, this verse, as I said, begins by saying that by faith Noah being divinely warned of things not yet seen. Now, three things here I want to talk about Noah as an example of someone who has proof for his faith. The first thing is that Noah believed what God told him. Noah believed what God told him, or what God warned him of. That’s what he means in the beginning of verse 7, that Noah being divinely warned of things. 

Now the question is: What was it that God warned Noah of? What was he told by God? Now there are two things he was told by God, and number one: he was told about a coming flood. He was told about a coming flood. Now, look with me now to Genesis chapter 6. Genesis 6:13. And verse 13, now it says here: “And God said to Noah”, so this is what God said to Noah: “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” And then in verse 17, God says: “And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.” So that is the first thing that Noah was warned of, and that is a coming flood.

Now the second thing that Noah was told is about the ark that saves. The ark that saves. So look at the same chapter in Genesis 6:18. And verse 18, and God said here: “But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.” And so, God told Noah about these two things: the flood and the ark. 

But the thing to take note of here at this point is that they had never been such an event as the flood, and never has been such a superstructure like the boat. Now, remember that Noah lived in a time when it never rained, before Noah in this earth there was no rain. You look with me for example in Genesis chapter 2. Genesis chapter 2 tells us the world in the beginning, in Genesis 2:5-6. And it says here: “before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.” If there was no rain, then where do we get water? So it’s clear from verse 6 that the water came from the earth to water the whole earth. 

Now that was before Noah, so until that time Noah had never seen rain. And that is what is meant in Hebrews 11:7 when we are told that Noah was warned of things not yet seen. It’s never seen that. As I said, and not only that he knew that there would be rain, and that is it by faith he knew that when God says that there would be rain and that the whole earth would be flooded. Now he believed that, and he believed God’s warning. In believing God’s warning, he spent 120 years building the ark. Now that is again an illustration of the meaning of faith, now faith is being assured of, being convinced of things not yet seen. Things not seen.

And the reason why Noah believed these things even though he had not seen is because God said so. He believed in the Word of God. Now we see that this kind of faith is a supernatural faith. This kind of faith requires that Noah stand alone in his generation. That’s why the other people know they could not believe things that they had not seen. Now that is the same all through the ages even until today. Look at what the Apostle Peter tells us in Second Peter. 2 Peter 3:3-4. 2 Peter 3:3- “knowing this first:”, says Peter, “that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation”. 

So in the days of the Apostle, they were already warning the people that judgment was coming, but that people did not believe. Why? Because they had not seen such a judgment before. I mean, know that it is the same today. We go and preach the gospel, and in preaching the gospel we warn of judgment to come, but people today are still the same. They would not believe because they had not seen these things. But faith, faith is believing in things, being assured of them even though they are not yet seen. And so, that is the first thing about Noah. Noah believed what was told to him by God even though he had not seen these things.

Now the second thing about Noah’s example is this, the question is now: What is the proof that Noah really believed? It is one thing to say that Noah believed in what was told to him. It is one thing to say to you: if I tell you that there is a God, if I tell you that there is such a thing as heaven and hell, if I tell you that the world is coming to an end and that we will all face God in judgment, would you believe these things? Would you believe? And if you say yes, my question now is: What is the proof that you believed? So now let us look at Noah again. What is the proof that Noah really believed that the flood was coming? And so, verse 7 of Hebrews 11 continues. In verse 7 it continues by saying that Noah, “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen,” and then it continues by saying “moved with” holy fear, or “godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household,” or for the saving of his family.

Now, again pause and think about this again about Noah and see how this is the evidence or the proof that Noah believed. Now we ask the question: Why did Noah build the ark? I say the proof that he believed in the coming flood is in the building of the ark because verse 7 says that he was “moved with godly fear”. He built an ark. So that is the first evidence alright- the first evidence, the first proof that Noah believed that the flood was coming, he built the ark. That is why he built the ark because he really believed that the flood was coming. He would be silly to build the ark if he did not, if he did not believe in the coming flood, because it was not easy to build the ark. 

It was not only not easy to build that huge superstructure, but he was also being mocked by the people at a time for doing so. And so, there must be this assurance, this deep conviction of things to come, of things unseen that move him to do so, but he believed. You see, this building of an ark proved that he really believed, because he believed with all his heart that if he did not build the ark, he and his family would be drowned. That’s the reason why he built the ark. That is the reason why he did what he did, or he behaved the way he behaved. 

Now, how are you behaving today in light of the warnings by God about things to come? You see, we can tell whether you believe in judgment. We can tell whether you believe in heaven and hell. We can tell whether you believe in God by the way you live your life. By the way you live your life. And so, by the things that Noah did here, we know that he really believed because he really actually built the ark. 

Now we asked also, what if Noah did not build the ark? Now we know that he was going around telling the people in his town that there would be a flood coming, that rain is coming. Now as these are just nonsensical things in the ears of these people, just like you tell people today that there is a God and the judgment is coming. The world is coming to an end and it just sounds nonsensical to perhaps most people in this world.

Now, when Noah tells these people that the flood is coming and yet if he was, if he did not build the ark, what would people say? Imagine people would be saying that he was a hypocrite. People would be laughing at him and say that he is not truthful, he’s not sincere, he himself is not even convinced of what he is telling other people, and sadly this so often is so. 

Therefore so many Christians, or so-called Christians, we have a message for the world. We go around and tell our friends about God, about Jesus Christ as the only way back to God, about heaven and about hell, and about coming judgment, and yet in our own life we do not do anything to prepare for it. Then we would be considered by our friends as hypocrites. Now you see Noah behaved differently from the people of his time. 

How did the people behave during the time of Noah when they heard this message? How did they behave? Now, look at what Jesus said about the people during the time of Noah in the Gospel of Luke chapter 17. The Gospel of Luke chapter 17 and look at verses 26 through 29. Luke chapter 17, beginning in verse 26. And hear Jesus said: “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all”. 

He said if this is a proof that they did not believe in the warnings of God, about the coming judgment, it’s by their life that continuing to go about their life as if nothing is going to happen. Is it not true? And then Jesus continued that it was so in the days of Lot in verse 28: “Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all”. 

Now that explains their behaviour. They did not believe, and therefore they just went on going about their life as usual. And I spent much time actually thinking about this lockdown pandemic in light of this, whether it is not true that God has stopped us in our track so that we do not go on about our life as if nothing is going to happen. Perhaps this is a time for us to pause and think about the warnings of God, about the things that God has said in His Holy Word, and to reflect on ourselves and our life, and our behaviour, and all the things that we are doing, whether we are living our life in light of this warning. Now that is the proof that Noah really believed: he lived his life, his action, in light of the warning that God has given to him. I say the first thing that we know that he really believed was in the building of the ark. 

But there is another important point mentioned by the writer to the Hebrews about Noah, about the proof of his faith, and I believe, and that is important for us to take note of here. That the proof that Noah believes is not only that he built the ark but also as we read on in verse 7 of Hebrews 11, it says that Noah was moved right, with holy fear prepared an ark. Then he says: “for the saving of his family”. For the saving of his family. In fact, I might venture to say here that perhaps the greatest proof that Noah really believed in the coming judgement is that he built the ark to save his family. To save his family. What was at the back of his mind every day when he takes the axe and the chisel, and the hammer to build the ark? What was at the back of Noah’s mind? 

Let me tell you this is at the back of his mind: he is fully convinced that danger is coming. God is going to judge this world. God is going to send a flood that will destroy all human beings in this world, including himself and his family if he did not build his ark. And so, he thought about his family. That is what is at the back of his mind- he thought about his family. He wanted to save his family, and he fully believed that his family could only be saved by the ark.

And I want to ask you: Do you have the same conviction? Do you spare a thought for your family? Do you think about your wife and your children, and your loved ones? Do you not realize that unless they come to the ark, unless they come and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, unless they know the gospel, unless they have heard of the gospel of the good news of the grace of God, they will be destroyed? They will perish forever and ever. There is no other way that they could be saved except through believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Noah believes that they must have the ark. They must have Christ. They must have the gospel. 

Now that was at the back of Noah’s mind. And I want to ask you: How would your family, how would your children know that you really believe in hell? How would his children believe that he really believed in the coming judgement by flood? How will your children, your family know that you believed in hell? Now listen to what Paul said in Second Corinthians chapter 5. Second Corinthians chapter 5, in verses 10 through the first part of verse 11. 2 Corinthians 5, and Paul said here: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ”. Now, this is the warning that God has given to us. This is the truth that is revealed in the Holy Scripture, that we shall all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in his body according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Do you believe this? Do you believe? 

Question is: How will your children, your family know that you believe? Verse 11. Paul says: “Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men”. Knowing, therefore, when we are convinced, when we know and are convinced of this truth, convinced of the terror of the Lord, convinced of the coming wrath of God upon humanity, upon sinners like us, we will persuade men. If we do not persuade men, it only shows that we do not really believe. We are not fully convinced of this truth, that we will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. 

Now the only proof, the biggest proof, that you truly believed is when you warn your family of these warnings, of this judgment to come. So I want to ask you at this point: What would you do to save your family? What would you do to save your family? I am not asking you to build an ark. I’m asking whether you would bring your children to church, or you would drop them somewhere off on your way to church. Maybe drop them off at the tuition centre or some other activity when you come to church. What about your children? Don’t you care for them? Don’t you want them to hear the gospel, that only the gospel can save them? Don’t you want to let them to hear of Jesus Christ? If you really believe that only Jesus can save them, what are you doing to show that you are convinced of this?

I want to ask you: Would you read the Bible to them? Some of you are having little children. What is your greatest concern about your little children? Are you concerned only about their bodily well beings, about the food that they eat, and later on about their education? What is your chief concern about your children? I believe that we ought to be gospel centric in the way we bring up our children, that everything about them is to bring the gospel to them. Why? Because you truly believe that this is the only way to be saved, and without this, they will perish forever. Forever. And Noah knew that if he did not build the ark, his family will perish when the flood came. 

So, what is it that you do that proves that you believe in the coming judgement? So that is Noah. That is how we know that Noah truly believes in God’s warning even though he had not seen those things. He had not seen the flood, he had not seen the superstructure, but he believed that judgment is coming, and he believed in salvation through the ark that God commanded him to build. And at the back of his mind, he had his family at heart. 

Now the second example is that of Abraham. And so the writers to the Hebrews then brings up Abraham in verse 8. And so in verse 8, he says: “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going”. Now listen, verse 8 says: “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out”. Now, again the first thing I want to say about Abraham is that he believed. That’s why it begins, this verse begins by saying that by faith, that is Abraham believed. And like Noah, Abraham believed something that he did not see. What was it that he was asked to believe? What was it that he was asked to believe?

Now, look with me to Genesis chapter 12. Genesis chapter 12, the first three verses. And he says in verse 1: “Now the Lord said to Abram”. So this is what God told Abraham: “Get out of your country, from your family, from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Now, this is what God told Abraham. He was asked to believe a place that he was called to go. God says I want you to go to a place, a wonderful place, and that was what Abraham was asked to believe.

Let me pause here and say this: God has made the same promise to us today. God said I want you to get out of this place and to go to a place, a wonderful place, the place that Abraham was called to go was Canaan, the place that we are asked to go is heaven. But you see, it is something that Abraham has, it’s a place that Abraham had never seen, and that’s what we are told, that we’re asked to go to a place that he did not know. 

So, if the people of Abraham’s time asked Abraham: “So Abraham, where are you going?” “So, I’m going to a place.” “Why are you going there?” “Because God told me that there is a wonderful place, and he asked me to get out of this place and leave everything behind to go to that place.” And then, the people might ask him and say: “Where is this place?” And Abraham would say: “I do not know; I do not know.” Then the question is: “Then why are you going? Why are you leaving everything behind? Leaving your job, your family, and everything behind to go to this place? Why?”

Well only one reason: “I believe because God said so.” And so, if you look at Genesis 12, the first three verses again, now this is the reason why Abraham believed because five times in these three verses God said “I will”- “I will” in verse two, it’s in the last part of verse one He said, “to a land that I will show you”. You do not know where there is, but I will show you where. He says: “I will make you a great nation” and “I will bless you”, and verse three He says: And “I will bless those who bless you”, and then He says: “I will curse”. I have said it, and that is enough for Abraham. Why are you leaving everything behind to go to that place that you do not know where? Well, the reason is I believe in the Word of God, and that confirms again our understanding of the meaning of faith- faith is believing in something that you had not seen simply because God had said so. And so, that is the first thing about Abraham. 

Now come to the proof. So Abraham believed in something that he had not seen. How do we know that he believed? How do we know that he believed? Now three things here in Hebrews 11 alright, we see the evidence of his faith or the proofs of his faith. 

Number one alright, the first proof. Number one- he shows, or he proves his faith by leaving his homeland. He proves his faith by leaving his homeland. Verse 8 of Hebrews 11, we are told that Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place alright, and he went, leaving everything behind. He left everything behind. He left his relatives, he left his old homes, he left his friends, he left his country, everything. Now, what was the proof that the Apostles, that the Apostles during the time of the Lord Jesus Christ believed Jesus? When Jesus came to this world, He spread the same message. He told of people of things unseen, and they were people like the Apostles who believed. 

Again, what was the proof that they really believed in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ? Matthew chapter 19. Matthew 19:27 tells us the proof alright. Now here’s how we know that they believed- Matthew 19:27 says: Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?” We have left everything behind, we have left our fishing net, our fishing boat, maybe Matthew could say I have left my lucrative business. We have left all to follow you! Now that is the proof that Abraham believed in the Word of God by leaving behind everything. And I want to ask you: What about you? Have you left all to follow Jesus? 

Second- the second proof that Abraham really believed in the words of God is in verse 9 of Hebrews 11. Verse 9 says: “By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise”. Now the word to take note of here in verse 9 is the word “tents”. They dwelled, dwelling in tents. Now “tents” is put there deliberately to make a point, and the point is this- that Abraham never lives in a house. He never lived in a house. What does that mean? It means that he saw himself as only temporarily in the place that he was. He was moving from place to place. As he travelled through the world, he was content just to build a tent, and then he moved on. It reflects that he understood that his life in this world is only a passing through. He was only a passing through. He did not grew his root, did not grew deep into this world. 

I think the Apostle Paul puts it this way when he writes to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter 7. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31, and listen to what the Apostle Paul said about how we ought to live our life in this world to show that we are truly people of faith, truly believe in things to come. Verse 29 of First Corinthians 7 says: “But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.” 

Do you believe that this world is passing away, that we are only here temporarily? If you say you believe, what is the proof? There are so many people that say that they believe that they’re only temporarily in this world but live as if they are going to be here forever by the way they amass things in this world, by the way that they grew their roots so deep into this world. But Paul is saying: stay loose to the things of this life. Leave as if you have none of these things. Those who have wives as if have none. Those who rejoice as they are not rejoicing. The point is that we must live as people who are only here for a little while.

The third proof that Abraham really believed in is in verse 10 of Hebrews 11, where it says here: By faith “he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” Now, this is the third proof that he really believed in things to come, and that is he shows his faith by looking forward to heaven. He shows his faith by looking forward to heaven. He’s someone who is always setting his minds on things above. He someone who is always laying up his treasures in heaven. Now that is the proof. That is a proof of someone who believes in heaven, and Abraham shows that. 

Now Abraham must have passed through many cities as he travelled on the way to the promised land, and he passed by these, maybe many of these cities were beautiful cities, but none of them appealed to him. None of them appealed to him. They could be beautiful cities like New York or Tokyo or Hong Kong, or perhaps other places, but his focus is on that city, is on the city whose builder and maker is God. The heavenly city, the city which we spoke about some time ago, about the new heaven and the new earth. 

This is the one thing that really marks out a Christian, and that is he is not this-worldly. He is not an earthly person; he is a person who has set his mind on things of the future. Again, listen to the Apostle Paul in this epistle to the Philippians in Philippians chapter 3. Philippians 3:18-21, which he says: “For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.” 

But verse 20: “Our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.” Now, what’s the difference between the behaviour of those who believe and the behaviour of those who do not believe? Well, it stated so very clearly here that those who are not truly convinced of things to come are those who set their minds in verse 19, who set their minds on earthly things. 

But those who truly believe are those in verse 20, that they know that their citizenship is in heaven and they eagerly wait for the Saviour and the Lord Jesus Christ. Now that we see in the life of Abraham, and so we see that faith must have proof. They must be something about our life, something about our behaviour, about our actions that proves that we truly believed in what we read. 

And here in the Bible, I want to ask you as I conclude: Do you believe? Do you believe in all that I’ve said this morning? Do you believe every time when you come and hear the Word of God in the church? Do you believe when you open up your Bible and read the Holy Scriptures and read of the revelations of God and rid of the many things that God has revealed even though you had not seen them, do you believe? And if you say you believe, I want to ask you again: What proof, what proof? In fact, I want to ask you what would be the chief proof? What is one thing that you can tell people that prove that you truly believed in the promises and the threat of God?

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.