Grace Reformed Church (GRC) Malaysia

Conditions For Salvation

by Peter Kek

Preacher

Our leaders Pastor Peter Kek

Peter Kek

Pastor Of Grace Reformed Church

Sermon Info

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Alright again a good morning, and we will continue our study on the miracles of the Lord Jesus Christ. The next miracle that we’re going to look at is recorded for us in the Gospel of Luke chapter 7, the first 10 verses. So before we study it, let us go to the Lord in prayer.

“Our Father in heaven, we do want to thank You as we gather both those of us who are here and those who are with us through live stream, we pray for Your blessing. We pray that You’ll bless the Word to our soul, to encourage us, to enlighten us. And we draw near this morning desiring O Lord to know Your will that we might do them. And we draw near desiring O Lord to give to You all the honour and glory that is due to Your name.

We come together this morning and we desire O Lord that You would build us up in our faith to make us more and more like the Lord Jesus Christ. And we pray also for those who have yet to know the Saviour, we pray that You might open up their eyes to see the needs of their soul and to see the truth about the Lord Jesus. And so we commit the rest of this time unto Your hands, we pray and ask in Jesus’ name, Amen.”

Alright so what we will do is that we will look at the incident recorded in our text this morning, and then we shall also look at why this is different from other miracles recorded in the Bible, and then we shall look at the lessons. So first, let us look at the incident recorded in our text here in Luke chapter 7. Now we are told at the beginning of this chapter that Jesus was returning to Capernaum. So in verse 1, we read: “Now when He concluded all His sayings in the hearing of the people, He entered Capernaum.”. When he says that He concluded all He’s saying, the saying refers to His preaching which was recorded for us in the previous chapter, what we might call Jesus’ Sermon on the Plain. 

Now His Sermon on the Plain is very similar to His Sermon on the Mount. When you look at verse 20 of chapter 6, there we were told that “He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples”, and then He preached his sermon saying: “Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.”. And then, “Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be filled.”. And so you can see that it is a similar message or sermon that He preached, except that here He not only included the blessing but also the woe in verse 24: “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. Woe to you who are full, for you shall hunger,” and so on.

And so Jesus was preaching, as I pointed out in this particular series that that is really the focus of our Lord Jesus Christ. He came and He wanted to preach the good news of salvation, not simply just to heal the people. And so after His preaching, we are told in chapter 7 that He returned to Capernaum. And then we are told in the following verse of a centurion’s servant who was sick and dying. Verse 2: “A certain centurion’s servant, who was dear to him, was sick and ready to die.”. ‘Ready’ there means he was dying. ‘Ready’ there means he was about to die. And here the centurion’s servant (some translation perhaps would translate it as a slave boy), the centurion slave boy. But the interesting thing about this centurion is that he loved his servant.

So his servant was highly valued. Highly valued means he was very dear, very valuable to him. And so hearing that Jesus had come to town, he sent a delegation of Jewish elders to seek Jesus’ help. So that’s what we are told in verse 3: “So when he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to Him, pleading with Him to come and heal his servant.” Now a centurion if you are not familiar is an army captain, sort of with about a hundred soldiers under him. So he in the sense is one of those high-ranking Roman army officers. So that’s what a centurion means.

Now so he sent this delegation, and the delegation of Jewish leaders or elders so met with Jesus. Verse 4: “And so when they came to Jesus, they begged Jesus earnestly, saying that the one for whom He should do this was deserving”. This is of course the Jewish elders’ opinion about the centurion, that is not what the centurion told him alright- told them to tell Jesus. But they told Jesus that come and help this man because he is deserving of your help. Verse 5, why? “For he loves our nation, and has built us a synagogue.”. Now note that he loves the Jewish nation, and he in fact helped them to build a synagogue. He was not merely contributing or making a contribution to the building of the synagogue, but he actually built the whole synagogue for them.

And so without saying much alright Jesus left with them towards the centurion’s house. Verse 6: “Then Jesus went with them. And when He was (almost or) already not far from the house”, now the centurion sent another delegation. So he sends another group of friends to Jesus, “saying to Him, “Lord, do not trouble Yourself, for I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof.””. So you see the contrast. The Jewish elders said that he was deserving, he was worthy. But the centurion sent the next group and said: No, I’m not worthy.

Verse 7: “Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You. But say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.””. And so he sent the next delegation, and that’s what he said alright to Jesus. And the purpose alright of sending this second delegation is to say You don’t actually need to come alright because I’m not worthy that You should come to my house alright, and I’m not even worthy to come to You. That’s what I’m sending people to seek help from You.

And not only that, he didn’t think that Jesus should come to his house not just that he was not worthy of Jesus’ presence but because he knows that Jesus can actually do something from a distance. Alright so you just say the word, and my servant will be healed. Now when Jesus heard this, the following verses record for us His reaction or His response. Verse 9: When Jesus heard these things, He marvelled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”.

And those who were sent, returning to the house, and found the servant well who had been sick.”. And so Jesus from a distance just healed this servant of the centurion. Alright, so that is the incident recorded for us alright in this passage. Now the next thing I want you to take note of is the change alright. There’s something different about this incident or this account here from the other accounts of Jesus’ miracles. In what ways or in what sense is this different? Well, it is different in its focus alright- it is different in its focus because here you find Luke who records this incident departs from his usual pattern by saying very little about the man to be healed. 

We are told really little, nothing much about the person to be healed. In fact, Jesus did not even meet that servant of the centurion because the focus is not on that man who is to be healed. The focus is on the Roman centurion. So what does Luke want us to see in this centurion? So, Luke as it were as he tells us this story, he is saying that I’m not talking about the leper (which he was focusing on the leper or the paralytic), but now he said I want you to think or to focus on this man, the Roman centurion.

So what does Luke want us to see in this centurion? Well first remember that when Luke tells this miracle story of Jesus, he is telling us stories of salvation. As I said, the point of miracles is to point to His saving mission. It’s to point to the salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ. And so again here what he’s saying is this: I am talking about salvation, and I want you to see in this man something about salvation. Now, what about that? You see here he wants us to look at this man and see that there are two vital conditions for salvation.

And so that is the title of my sermon this morning: “Conditions for Salvation”. In other words, if you were to be saved, like I say these are stories about salvation, about Jesus saving us. But if you were to be saved, there are some conditions that must be there or that must be fulfilled. So what are the conditions for salvation as taught here through this incident? Number one, the first condition of salvation is humility. It’s humility.

Look again at verse 6, the last part, when he sent the second delegation to Jesus, they came to Jesus passing this message to Jesus, saying: “Lord, do not trouble Yourself, for I am not worthy.”. I am not deserving. Now turn with me for a while to chapter 18 of the Gospel of Luke and see what Jesus says there. Luke 18:17. Luke 18:17, now Jesus says here: “Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”. Jesus said if you want to enter into the kingdom of God, you must enter it as a little child.

By that, He means that we must be humble. We must have humility. And the fact is that humility is not our native quality, it’s not natural of any one of us. We are naturally proud people. You see again in chapter 18 verse 10, Jesus says: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax collector. And the Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other man—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’”.

Now, this is the kind of man Jesus says cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. That is the reason why Jesus mentioned that in verse 17 that if you want to enter; if you want to be saved, you must be humble because proud people cannot be saved. Now when you come back to Luke 7 and think about this centurion, you can think of many reasons that could have made this man very proud. Look at what is told about this man.

First, he was a centurion. He was a person with some ranking, and that’s what people boast about. Boast about our ranking, our status. I’m the centurion; I’m the captain; I’m the chief; I’m the senior, senior manager. You see, that is this man. He could have been a proud man because of his stature. His rank implied his competence and his qualifications. It’s probably why he was there because he was a very well qualified person, and qualification could have make a person very proud. And remember that he was part of the occupying army, and Jesus was a Jew. They were under the Roman rule as it were.

And he could have just ordered Jesus around and said: “Get this man to come to my place and ask Him to serve me or to heal my servant.”. He could have just ordered Jesus to come because he was, you know, superior to Jesus. And also we take note of the fact that he was a rather wealthy man, a rich person. And that’s the reason why he could actually give enough money to build a synagogue for the Jews. And he is also a well-known philanthropy.

I mean, he probably did a lot of charitable works, as we see in verses 4 and 5 what is told about him by the elders of the Jews: “And they came to Jesus and begged Him earnestly, saying that the one for him He should do this was deserving, “for he loves our nation, and” what? And he “built us a synagogue”. You see, people are full of praise of this man. He’s a well-known for doing these charity works in that community. Now you think of such a man- high ranking, wealthy, doing a lot of good works. I say that these things like money and status and qualifications and good works are the very things that make many of us proud alright. We will be very proud we have these things.

But this man, that’s what Luke wants to draw our attention to. He says but this man, I want you to think about this centurion. That’s why the focus is on the centurion, not on the slave servant, he says. But this man did not allow these things to get to his head, and his humility is therefore highlighted. And that’s what Luke wants us to think about this: I want us to look at this man or focus on this man. He wants to see the humility of this man. Although he has many reasons to be proud, but he was a humble man. 

Like I said, his humility is summed up in these words: “I am not worthy”. “I am not deserving”. And probably two things that make him feel this way why he is not worthy, he says in verse 6: I am not worthy that Jesus should come to me. I am not worthy that Jesus should come to me. Why? Why does he feel this way that he’s not worthy, he’s not deserving even for Jesus to come to his house? Now perhaps he was a Gentile, and he feels that he’s not worthy you know because the Gentiles you know is considered as unclean, they’re considered as dogs. Or perhaps because of his profession as a centurion, leading a group of army, they were going around bullying the Jews. He says that’s not a good profession to be in. 

But most surely, he was humble. He felt that he was not deserving or worthy, not like what is thought of by the other people because the other people, the Jewish elders, what they could see was his outside, his external. Externally he was deserving because of his stature and his wealth and his qualification and his many good deeds. So people could see outside him or outwardly, externally, he was deserving. But he could see what his friends could not see. He could see what was inside him. He could see what was inside him. And inside him, he knew that he was a sinner. 

Now you see, there are many things that is secret alright that is known only to us, not known to other people, are the many sins in our lives. Things that is in our mind, the kind of attitude that’s in our hearts, or the secret things we do that we do not want other people to see. Only he knows, and he knows that Jesus is a holy man. He is clean. I’m unclean, I’m a Gentile. I’m unclean, I’m unclean because I know my life. I can see what is inside me. I know the secrets of my life, and I know that I am not deserving. And so he says I’m not worthy that Jesus should come to me. 

Then he says that I’m not worthy also because I’m not even worthy to come to Jesus alright. Not only for Him to come to me but also not even worthy to come to Jesus. Why? But again you see in verses 7 and 8 here, he tells us the reason why he is not worthy even to come to Jesus. Verse 7: “Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You.”. But he says, “say the word, and my servant will be healed.”. And then he says: “For I am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me.”.

In other words, what he’s saying is that I understand what it means to be a man with authority because when I say to my servant “‘Come,’ he comes”. And when I say to my servant “‘Go,’ he goes”. I know what it means to be a man of authority. And what he is saying here is that Jesus above all is the man with true authority. Jesus, more than me, more than anyone else in this world. All the people who seem to have authority, but Jesus has authority. In other words, not only he saw himself as he truly is, not as other people see him, as one who is undeserving, one who is a sinner on the one hand.

But on the other, he also saw Jesus as He truly is, that He is the Lord of lords. He’s the Master of the universe. The Master of the universe. Now how did he know it? The reason is because probably that he has many Jewish friends, the Jewish elders, telling him about what is happening out there because all through the account here and up to this point, Jesus had been performing one miracle after another. And news about Jesus has spread. That was how the leper heard of Jesus because people were proclaiming about the wondrous deed, the amazing deeds of the Lord Jesus Christ. And every time that Jesus performed a miracle, people said something like: This is amazing. He’s a man of authority. 

Look with me for example at Luke chapter 4. Luke chapter 4, we are told in verse 31 that when “He went down to Capernaum” (now earlier on he was in Capernaum), the city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths. And they were astonished at His teaching,” verse 32, “for His word was with authority.”. Now you see everywhere He went, people could sense that Jesus was a man with authority. And look at verse 35 chapter 4, “But Jesus rebuked him” (that is the demon) “saying, “Be quiet, and come out of him!” And when the demon had thrown him in their midst, it came out of him and did not hurt him. Then they were all amazed and spoke among themselves, saying, “What a word this is! For with authority and power He commands the unclean spirits, and they come out.””. 

Now you see what the centurion was saying when I say to my servant “‘Come,’ he comes”, but Jesus said to the demons ‘come’, and the demons come. He’s a man with great authority. Same chapter, verse 38. Verse 38: And “He arose from the synagogue and entered Simon’s house. But Simon’s wife’s mother was sick with high fever, and they made request of Him concerning her. So”, verse 39, “He stood over her and rebuked the fever, and it left her. And immediately she arose and served them.”. Here is Peter’s mother-in-law, sick with high fever. And Jesus commanded the fever and the fever went away. 

In chapter 5 verses 23 and 24. Chapter 5 verses 23 and 24, Jesus said: “Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’?”. Then He said, verse 24: “But that you may know that the Son of Man has power (or authority) on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.””. Now Jesus has power, has authority to forgive sin, to command the demons to come out, to command the fever to leave the woman. You might remember also that Jesus had power or authority even to command the storm, the wind, and the waves, and they obeyed.

Now, this is our Lord Jesus Christ. This is who He is. He is no ordinary person, but people cannot see it. That’s why they do not come to Him, and that’s why they do not believe in Him. But not this man. That is what Luke is telling us here that he saw Jesus as He truly was. He is the Son of God. He’s a man with authority, absolute authority over everything. He says I’m a man of authority. I understand what it means to be a man of authority, but You are the man of authority.

Like I say that he was humbled because he saw who he truly was, and then saw who Jesus truly was. And therefore he says I am not worthy alright- I’m not worthy. So let me say again that this is a condition for salvation. If you were to be saved, you cannot be proud. You cannot boast in your own goodness and your qualifications and whatever. If you were to be saved, you must humble yourself before the Almighty God and before our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 

Now that leads us to consider the second condition for salvation. The second condition for salvation as we see here in this man, the centurion. You see, the second marvellous thing about the centurion is his faith. Look at verse 9: “When Jesus heard these things, He marvelled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith”. “Such great faith, not even in Israel!”.

This man not only was humbled, but he was a man of great faith. Now, what does it mean to have faith? If this is a condition for salvation, now what does it mean? What does it mean to have faith? Now it means this: it means trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation. It means trusting in Jesus alone, nothing else. Now, this centurion again could have trusted in many things. He could have trusted in his wealth or in his good works or in his good morals, even religious work because he built a synagogue alright. 

You can be very religious or do a lot of religious activity, and many people trust in these things. Look at verse 2 of chapter 7 when the centurion’s servant was dear to him. You see, he is a man of great compassion. Now he takes care of his servant. He seems by all measures as it were to be a very good man. Again in verses 4 and 5 as I read earlier on, now people could see that he was a good man. I say he could have boasted in his morality, in his goodness.

Now a person like this is also recorded for us, I mean who boasts in his goodness. A person who boasts in his goodness, and it’s actually recorded for us in chapter 18. Remember just now I was reading from chapter 18, and Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and reminding them that if they were to boast in their goodness, saying to people I have fast twice a week, I’m not like this man, and Jesus said this person cannot be saved. You cannot boast in your goodness. And Jesus gave an example of the other person in verse 18.

He said a certain rich young man or a rich ruler asked Him, “saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?””. He said there are many people like that. They come and they want to be saved, and they are always thinking that the way to be saved is to be good enough. Jesus said of this man in verse 21 say this man said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”. He’s again boasting in his obedience to the law. Like I say, the centurion could have been like one of these men, but he did not. He did not. The centurion trusted in Jesus alone, not because he had nothing but because he saw all the things that he has as nothing, as nothing to be proud of, as nothing to boast about. 

Now faith is this, as one hymn writer puts it: “Nothing in my hands I bring, Simply to Thy cross I cling”. Now that is faith. That is what we see in this centurion. He comes to Jesus and says forget about all my merits. I come to You, Jesus, and You alone because You alone can save me. Now the next thing to consider about this person’s faith is not only to know what is his faith about but why is it great? Jesus said I found in this man such a great faith, not even in Israel. So why is this man’s faith great? I think at least for two reasons.

One, this man’s faith is great because of what he said in verse 7. Because of what he said in verse 7. Now verse 7 says: “Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You. But say the word”. Now in the Matthew account is recorded there as “just say the word”. He tells Jesus all you need to do is to say the word, and my servant will be healed. Now, this is in contrast to the many other people, both today and those that we read in the Bible. I think for example in Mark chapter 8. Mark 8:11-12.

Now Mark 8:11-12, we are told this: “Then the Pharisees came out and began to dispute with Jesus, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, testing Him. But Jesus sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.””. What Jesus is lamenting here is this: that there are people who want proof. They say give us proof, give a sign that You are the Messiah, that You are the Saviour, that You can do this. You can remember also Thomas. Now he did not believe when his fellow apostles told him about the resurrected Christ. He said unless I see Him and I want to see His hand, I want to touch Him. I want proof! 

Now listen to what Paul wrote to the Corinthians in First Corinthians chapter 1. 1 Corinthians 1:21, and Paul again said the same thing: “For since, in the wisdom of the world, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (Mistakenly mentioned “wisdom of the world”, supposedly “wisdom of God”). For the Jews request a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom”.

Now what Paul is saying to the Corinthians is that all we need is the preached Word. Just say the word, and those who have faith will believe. Now you see, the centurion impresses the Lord Jesus Christ because the Lord Jesus Christ has seen many, many others (the other Pharisees and so on) who are always requesting for proof. When it comes to this man, this man needed no proof. He says you don’t even need to come near. You just say the word, and that is enough. That’s why his faith was great, and that’s why our Lord Jesus was impressed. He marvelled. He was impressed by this man’s faith.

But there’s a second reason why this man’s faith is great or impressed our Lord Jesus Christ. The second reason is because of who he was. First, because of what he said. He said just say the word, that’s enough. But secondly also because of who he was. He was a Gentile. Note again in verse 9 of Luke 7: “When Jesus heard these words, He marvelled at him, turned around and said to the crowd who followed Him”. And He says: “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”. Now think about that. Think about what Jesus is trying to say here. 

He says that there are people, now in fact you might want to take note that there was only two occasions where we are told that Jesus marvelled. One is here when Jesus saw the faith of this centurion, and we are told He marvelled. He was you know kind of astonished. He marvelled. The second time when Jesus marvelled is recorded for us in Mark 6:6. And why did Jesus marvelled in Mark chapter 6? Now listen, Mark 6:6, we are told here: “And He (that is Jesus) marvelled because of their unbelief.” Because of their unbelief, that is the unbelief of the Jewish people. 

In other words, when it comes to Luke 7, what Luke wants us to see in this man is this: that this man’s faith is great because of the contrast that here is a man who is a Gentile, and he believed the Lord Jesus Christ. He demonstrated, he showed forth such marvellous, such great faith, such trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And on the other hand, on the other hand, the contrast. And what is the contrast? The contrast is these Jewish people, and they remained hardened. They remained unbelieving. Now, why is that amazing? Now why should that impress the Lord Jesus Christ? Now it is this: because these people (the Jewish people), they have all the advantages. They have all the privileges. 

What advantage does a Jew have? Now you remember what Paul told them when they asked the questions, they said what is so advantageous being a Jew? And Paul answered them in Romans chapter 3. Romans 3:1-2, again listen to what Paul tells them. Verse 1 of Romans 3: “What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?”. And Paul answered that verse 2: “Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.”. In other words, Jesus is having the same thing in mind. He looked at this Jewish nation. He looked at them and He said you are such a privileged lot, such a blessed group of people because it’s only to you that God has given His Laws. It’s only to you God has given His prophets. Only to you. 

He said this is a special nation. All through the generation, a chosen people of God. So blessed in every way as Paul says, especially when they have the Word of God, and yet they remain unbelieving. And here is the other man, he doesn’t have all these advantages, and yet he believed. Now here is a warning. Now here is a warning perhaps for many of us alright this morning. And the warning is this: now turn now with me to Matthew chapter 8, the other account of the same incident alright- the other account of the same incident, that is the Roman centurion.

You see in Matthew chapter 8, we are told this beginning in verse 10: “When Jesus heard it, He marvelled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!””. Now same thing, but he (Matthew) alright recorded more alright. And Jesus continued to say in verse 11: “And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.”.

Jesus is saying to the people, now look at this centurion. Now, this is what I want to tell you. The time will come you see in heaven together with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, who will be there with them? It will be people who come from the east and the west, meaning to say people from everywhere, including this man, the centurion because the east and west refers to all the other Gentiles, all the other races, and includes us- the Chinese; includes the Indian, and maybe the other races. But verse 12: “But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”.

They’ll be surprised on that day, you see that the people gathered together with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in heaven are people you don’t recognize. They’re from all over the world, but people you expect to be there, they are not there. Who are the sons of the kingdom here in verse 12? It’s first of all a reference to the Israelites. He’s warning them you have all the privileges, but you may not be found in the kingdom of heaven. As I say, the sons of the kingdoms could refer to the Israelites, but it could refer to anyone with the same kind of privileges, like those from so-called Christian nations.

One day you might find that not many of them are found together with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. The sons of the kingdom could refer to those who grew up in Christian homes. You’ll find your friends coming from pagan backgrounds without Christian parents, but they will be found in the kingdom of heaven with Abraham. The sons of the kingdom could be a reference to those who grew up in the church.

We have all the privileges of hearing the Word of God since Sunday school days. Week after week we hear the Word, but then one day, those who are found in the kingdom with Abraham are those outside the church. They’ve never been to Sunday school, but they were found when they heard the gospel like the centurion, they embraced because they saw who they truly are. They are broken, undeserving sinners, and they could see who Jesus truly is. He is the Son of God, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. Let us pray.

“Our Father in heaven, we thank You for salvation through Your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. And we thank You that this good news of salvation has been proclaimed far and wide. We thank You that this morning we have the privilege of hearing it once again, but we are also told this morning that there are conditions to be saved. Unless we humble ourselves and see ourselves as undeserving sinners, unless we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, believing that He alone can save us from our sin. Unless we believe, we shall not be saved.

We want to pray that we will heed this warning from the Lord Jesus Christ that just because we have the privileges of perhaps growing up in the church or even in Christian homes, help us not to take this for granted but to humble ourselves like this centurion and to trust in You alone for salvation, for this we pray in Jesus’ name, Amen.”


This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.